Adrian Vella (00:00)
Morning Nick, thanks for joining us, much appreciated. I guess there's probably many people who do know you, but for those that don't, Nick, tell us a about Silvebean, what's the agency best known about, and a bit about yourself as well. That'd be a really great place to start.
Nic Yates (00:14)
Sounds good. So I'm Nick, commercial director at Silverbean for Europe and North America. I've been in the industry for 12 years. So basically started out as affiliate marketing exec and then moved all the way up to kind of performance account director. And then once I'd worked in services for eight years, I kind of moved over to the dark side really into the sales team. And it was very much their own kind of just using my knowledge from managing campaigns in regards to just making sure that we're setting the right strategy.
for the clients that come on board with us as an agency as well. So yeah, that's a bit about me. From a Silverbean perspective, we are a global affiliate and partner marketing agency. So we've got our offices in the UK, we've got numerous people across Europe, and then we've got people in the US and Sydney for our APAC region as well. In regards to what we do and how we do it, so partnerships for us,
is split across the different types of partnerships that you can activate within affiliate and partner marketing. So we work across the traditional affiliates. We've also got channels focused on content based on influencers and also based on brand to brand partnerships as well. The type of clients that we support, it's mainly kind of retail, subscription, travel, ticketing. We do a lot of work within finance as well. So kind of a nice mixture, I would say, in regards to the types of clients that we work with.
And the good thing about that is that we can take the learnings from the partner channels within those industries because they've naturally evolved at different rates as well. So we kind of piece it all together and provide the client with the right strategy from there.
Adrian Vella (01:44)
this one. So obviously as you just said, you've been closely actioned probably hundreds of ecommerce brands to be fair. What would you say has changed the most in the ecommerce space over the last couple of years in your opinion?
Nic Yates (01:56)
For me, it's probably measurement. I think the importance of being able to measure not only the impact of revenue and but also looking at customer types and new customers in comparison to existing. there has been a big focus in regards to retention and lifetime value. More brands are now looking at CAC.
That used to be a big thing just within subscription. It's obviously moved well towards travel and retail brands are picking that up now as well. I ⁓ think the shift towards kind of how we measure the performance channels and what that does not only to acquire new customers, but how to retain customers as well. The other kind of big shifts for us as an agency has obviously been the evolution of the kind of partner channels as well and looking at diversify away from traditional affiliates and
and look to do more within content influencer, brand brand partnerships and so on as well. And then how the channel works alongside other digital marketing channels as well is important. When I first started, it was very much a siloed channel, probably the ugly duckling of channels. Now it's kind of how does the affiliate marketing channel sit at the table with the other digital marketing teams and support them in their KPIs as well. So working alongside the likes of PBC, Search.
CRM teams and so on.
Adrian Vella (03:06)
One thing you mentioned there is that lots of brands are moving more towards a kind of retention slash CAC based model. And obviously affiliate probably has a long history of being more of an acquisition based channel. Is there a particular something that you think that's led to that change? Is it a case of more competition in the market? In your opinion, why do you think that particular change?
Nic Yates (03:27)
If you think of brands, so I kind of split companies into, they a brand owner or are they kind of a multi-brand marketplace in itself? If you think of brands, brands like New Balance and Nike and Under Armour and so on, they're really looking to build a connection with the user. And I think that's really changed in the last
five years. Brands are wanting to have direct ownership and contact with an individual to tell their brand story but then also to try and take ownership as well within the ecosystem too so I think that's kind of been a big shift.
The other side of it is more around it is harder to acquire customers. It is more expensive across other paid media channels as well. So brands are kind of looking at, well, how do we retain customers and how do we measure the value that we're getting from a customer as well through lifetime value too.
Adrian Vella (04:18)
Super interesting. So from your perspective, maybe digging into more brand partnership element here, how have brand partnerships evolved in that five-year timescale? I know you, in particular, were quite vocal about brand-to-brand partnerships when they were coming on the scene the same time as us.
Do you think brands are using them differently now compared to say, you know, the three to five years ago?
Nic Yates (04:39)
Yeah, I've always been a big advocate for brand-to-brand partnerships. I just think it's a new and exciting way to either monetize a brand's existing audience or look to acquire new customers as well. I think the bit for me is what's changed really to help this. It's more around less transactional purpose from brands. It's more around kind of how do you engage and retain customers.
And within that really it's about advocacy as well. So how does a brand actually get a customer as an advocate? Because an advocate then will refer business over a year, they'll spend more as well. So like there's all sorts of the benefits of that as well.
Adrian Vella (05:17)
Interesting. think One of the biggest changes I've seen is in how you can influence behavior and actually improve your margin. You know, for example, you see it all the time. A lot of brands will do something like, you know, come by from us today and get instantly 10 % off. For me, that that's one of the most frustrating flows in the world because you're giving away margin to someone who may have already bought something from you anyway. I'm kind of seeing like people using brand partnerships to, instead of doing that, adding value instead of subtracting margin.
would you say you've seen a similar shift in that as well? And rather in terms of just, you know, I can give away my own stuff or I can, you know, give someone else value with something else.
Nic Yates (05:52)
Yeah, a little bit of both on that, to be honest. I think less of our clients now are having like welcome 15, get 15 % off as new customer.
that was, it was a tool a few years ago, but not so much now. think brands are actually looking at a bigger focus now that they do have a direct and meaningful way to acquire a customer. It's more around kind of how do you protect the brand as well and not by pushing discounts, by kind of expressing the value of the brand and the product and the service that they can offer as well. So brands are definitely kind of coming, was as an agency in regards
How do we push more full price in comparison to sale? And I think that then leads into this conversation as well, kind of like how can you leverage brand partnerships to offer value to a customer in comparison to discounting your own stock as well.
Adrian Vella (06:42)
Interesting.
Affiliate and performance marketing is obviously constantly changing, particularly with new technologies emerging and different customer expectations as well. I'm curious as to if you have a particular viewpoint on that.
Nic Yates (06:56)
Yeah, the big thing for me is just in regards to what is the role of an affiliate and partner marketing manager and what does that encompass.
The last five years, the channel has diversified. So affiliate managers are now working across kind of traditional affiliates, content, influencers, and brand and brand partnerships. Within that, it's touching on different teams. So the affiliate manager needs to work alongside like the PR team, for example, the SEO team, the PPC team. So that's kind of evolved over time. And the other big thing that I think is kind of coming in the next 12 months, and certainly from a brief perspective that we're getting at an agency, is this kind
unified channel role as well. So brands are now looking at kind of agencies to manage not only the affiliate program on e-commerce but also looking at how they can leverage partnerships across social commerce and marketplaces as well. So it's kind of like bringing partnership management into more of a unified role to then make it more efficient to manage partnerships across the business but then also give flexibility in regards to where that customer does purchase as well whether it's kind of through TikTok shop or Amazon or DTC as well.
So that's kind of like a big shift for us. The other thing was just in regards to the partner channels that will continue to evolve and brands will continue to use partnerships more within kind of mid and upper funnel as well. And that then just leads to more revenue and more budget probably being assigned to content influencer and brand partnerships as well.
Adrian Vella (08:21)
Interesting. And this is maybe a particularly a big question. Do you think that the term on the basis of what you just said, like affiliate marketing is the correct term for what do, you know, is partnership marketing, for example, a greater term? I'm just, you've, you've pointed out a brilliant challenge, right? For you guys, which is that we're kind of expected to do many things beyond just X, Y, Z. We're to a degree a full service agency. this is a classic debate that everyone has in this industry, but do you think affiliates still the right term?
particularly when describing yourselves as an agency.
Nic Yates (08:50)
Partnerships. We use partnership ecosystem quite a lot at Silverbean just in how we express what we do. The bit for me is just the flexibility to look at well what's the client's brief to be honest like and which partner channels are most relevant for them and working out that puzzle. The industry itself
over time it will look at what we called and things like that for me it's it's more about just
How do we advocate for the channel to grow as much as possible? And where does that advocacy come from as well? There's a ton of reasons and things in the news at the minute in regards to of the negatives within affiliate marketing and.
quite often they can be the loudest voices within the industry. For me personally, I kind of look at, yes, that is going on and there are serious things that we need to address. But at the same time, there's so much opportunity and there's so much room for the affiliate channel to grow, not only in regards to kind share of budget, but in regards to new budget that's coming in as well. So it's more about what are the growth areas and how do we kind of tap into that for the industry to be in a different place in kind of the next three to five years.
Adrian Vella (09:52)
It's interesting because I see the same in brand partnerships to a degree, right? I think it probably has a historical perception around it's purely for monetization purposes. Whereas for example, you can use it for many things. You can use it to convert a customer for the first time. Like we talked about, we can use it as a margin, improvement tool. can use it as a retention tool to your point in like that full funnel approach.
I think it's interesting that so many different subsections of affiliate marketing in itself can do so many different parts of that funnel. Like being a modern day affiliate manager is certainly more than just a classic acquisition tactic in my opinion.
Nic Yates (10:26)
Yeah, no other.
And I mean, the role of an affiliate manager, like you have to know so much around how other channels work as well. So you might be working with CSS partners, which is Google Shopping, and it's basically a PPC role in itself. Kind of you might be doing content and it's very much around how does that content rank. And you're looking at SEO, for example, you then might be doing outreach and it's more on digital PR and how you can be creative to create new content. Like there's so many skills involved in regards to affiliate management. And I think that's probably one of the things.
a little bit underrated as well. And then just getting back to the brand partnerships point as well. Like yes, it can be an acquisition tool. Yes, it can be a monetization tool, but it can also be an enable enable and tool as well. how do marketers actually leverage brand partnerships within their own marketing message as well. So kind of you can leverage your brand partnerships within social, within your PVC ads.
as well, so there's lots of areas I can touch on that.
Adrian Vella (11:20)
Absolutely. We've already kind of gone through a little bit already and defined as some interesting definitions at times. How would you, in the context of brand-dependent partnerships, how would you explain the roles of say like an advertiser, aka the brand being promoted versus a host, aka the brand who's doing the promoting?
Nic Yates (11:37)
The advertiser for me is somebody with an offer and they're trying to attract a new customer. The host is the person that actually enables and looks to push the promotion out to their user base itself. And they're really looking to just add value to their customer base.
Adrian Vella (11:52)
Interesting. And I guess maybe one thing to touch on this is obviously the two sides of it have a completely contrasting objective, right? I think to your point, we sometimes see that people are obsessed with the advertising side, which is all about new customers. And that's, that's absolutely fair, right? Getting promoted by another brand is one way of getting customers, but they don't necessarily appreciate that. Actually, if you promote other brands, more brands are likely to buy from you in the first instance, which in a weird way is another way of acquiring.
Nic Yates (12:17)
Yeah.
Adrian Vella (12:19)
more customers. I don't know if you've got a viewpoint on that.
Nic Yates (12:22)
The other thing I've had within that is the ease of promotion as well. remember many years ago, you see, we started talking to you with the open network that Sylvain was running. And that was literally the point where I realized that retailers are either just wanting traffic or they're wanting a two way relationship in regards to like they will promote the other brand as well. And those brands that were open to the two way relationship, like it just delivered so much more value.
and they could get so much more done. I think if you look at being an advertiser, it's very transactional. You literally ⁓
looking to just gain the traffic in the sales and pay the commission for that. If you're looking to kind of host as well, then it gives you the opportunity to build the relationships with other brands and kind of start to speak probably more strategically with them. And in some cases it can then expand in regards to, how do you promote kind of outside of the loyalty platform and how do you do competitions or kind of attend events and do offline media together as well.
I think that being a host, just opens up the door for so much more collaboration, but it also obviously supports from a value add perspective to your users and conversion rate, average order value as well. They're so important metrics when it comes to wider digital market and support as well.
Adrian Vella (13:37)
Yeah, and I think maybe we can delve into that maybe a little bit more in this question. Historically, a lot of brands, at least in our experience, have typically thought like, know, we'll be an advertiser first. We'll try hosting later. You know, Do you think that more brands should be considering hosting partnerships rather than just being an advertiser? I'm curious from like kind of your agency viewpoint. or your opinion on that.
Nic Yates (14:00)
Yeah, for me, mean, it's so much easier to be a host now as well, kind of like plug and play solutions, just being able to directly integrate quite quickly. It takes away the need for dev and efforts from other teams.
It's much more attractive for brands to be able to do it. There is still quite a bit of conversation around how a partnership manager brings the model and speaks to the other digital marketing channels and leverages it. But There's so many more benefits in regards to becoming a host in comparison to just being an advertiser within a platform. The clients that we've seen it work really well on.
then.
Yes, it can be a really good monetization tool and it can be a new revenue stream completely for them. And to be honest, some teams look to then reinvest that back into the marketing budget to acquire new customers as well. But it can also be really impactful from kind of conversion rate optimization perspective as well. like there's huge benefits there. And then obviously finance teams like it because it is that new revenue stream and then kind of marketing teams can kind of see the benefit in using the brand partner.
ships ⁓ within the marketing efforts as well.
Adrian Vella (15:10)
Makes sense. we've obviously talked a little bit about kind of in your opinion, what makes a successful host campaign from your point of view, right? it's a mixture of like CRO, secondary revenue, whatever the particular EEC that you're trying to fix that moment in time. I'm just curious if, you know, from your experience, if you've seen, there's any particular.
verticals or types of clients or things or examples specifically that you've seen do well on your side that you could share.
Nic Yates (15:35)
Yeah, the bit for me is, I mean, subscription and travel clients always do so well within brand partnerships. The bit for me that kind of a good indication of a brand that might perform well is a brand that has either a large audience or
multiple markets within their audience as well. if you think of a ticketing company, for example, a ticketing company can maybe touch on the younger demographic, they'll be touching on the older demographic and then touch on all sorts of audience. And I think that can really help in regards to brand partnerships as well, because then you can showcase multiple offers from multiple industries to tap into a niche audience as well.
Adrian Vella (16:11)
Yeah, I agree with you. It's interesting because there's obviously many ways to skin a cat, right? You can have a very linear customer journey of like, we offer this, this is perfect for our customers. But to your point in a larger audience, you we have many, many people you can kind of to a degree get away with having a product offering.
It's an interesting one in travel, right? Because you have like a very niche case of like, okay, I'm going on holiday. I need X and Y, which is why ABC gifts make sense, for example, the rewards. I'm curious, obviously we talked about two verticals there, but what kind of brands do you think in general are suited to hosting? for you as an agency as well at Sylvan, how do you advise clients on that particular decision or them considering that route?
Nic Yates (16:53)
From an agency perspective it's very much around what is their overall strategy, does the strategy focus on nucleus requisition, retention, what's the problem that we're trying to solve.
overall and how does brand partnerships fit within that. The conversation in regards to kind of being a host, quite often that decision making process doesn't sit within just the affiliate and partner marketing world. It can cross in kind of multiple functions and to be honest, it normally kind of goes into kind of the CMO type role.
make that decision because it will touch on multiple channels. For us then it's just being able to facilitate the ease of integration and the ability to leverage Brand Partnerships as a tool across multiple channels but then also as a lever to support conversion rate or to support UCAS requisition through referrals.
Adrian Vella (17:44)
makes sense. And do you typically see these conversations? I know you're more like, commercial, do you see this as a more like a new business style discussion you're having with customers was more like your existing teams are also looking at this as well, holistically. I'm just again, curious, because you work with brands for a long time, right? And you speak to lots of different ones. I'm just curious as to the different parts of the funnel, if you will.
Nic Yates (18:05)
A little bit of both. It totally depends on the brief, to be honest, and their point of maturity within partnerships. Silverbean does have a progression model and when we look to onboard clients, we basically audit where they are within their partnerships journey in regards to maturity.
What we typically do at Silver Bean have been a phase delivery model. We don't necessarily want to do 101 things on the first day. We look to fix the foundations and then obviously look to scale out. In regards to their objectives then, brand partnerships might fit on day one, it might fit on month six. It just totally depends on the client's objectives and flexibility as well.
Adrian Vella (18:39)
Interesting. we're now into early 2026. And if we were to look back at 2025, what surprised you most in the general e-commerce and brand partnership space last year?
Nic Yates (18:50)
The bit for me was pretty much that enterprise brands were the ones who adopted first. Quite often you see...
mid-sized businesses test and learn and then Enterprise will take from there. But we really see Enterprise tap into brand partnerships first. So that's exciting for me because it showcases the size of the opportunity for other brands and I think that will help with adoption in the next six to 12 months as well. The other thing as well is just in regards to the volume of brands wanting to engage within brand partnerships now as well. Companies like yourself have made it so much easier.
to be activated within brand partnerships. So the adoption itself in the last year and the performance it drives as well kind of we're now seeing brand partnerships appear within the top 10 affiliate mix for example and consistently doing that as well. So really the revenue impact that it's having for clients too.
Adrian Vella (19:42)
It's interesting because I'd say we saw a similar trend, particularly when we were a newer company. I'd call it the mid market kind of pioneers or brands being the ones to be like, right, this is brand partnerships. This is new. I've got nothing to lose. I'll give it a go. must, must grow with anything. And to your point, yeah, we've seen a lot as well. Enterprise brands have really kicked up a gear in the last year or so. I'm curious just touching on that point slightly more deeply, like.
Nic Yates (20:01)
Thank you.
Adrian Vella (20:07)
You know, do you have a theory of why I'll share mine by the way, but do you have a theory of why kind of enterprise brands have really kind of picked up on this in the last year?
Nic Yates (20:16)
I think for me it comes back to that ability and need really to want to do more with the customer and improve lifetime value. I think it's an element of focused on retention. It is more competitive to acquire and I think that mix then brings together a conversation within.
the marketing function around what tools can we leverage to help consumer lowly and Brand Partnerships fits well within that itself.
Adrian Vella (20:44)
I agree. think the only point I'd add on top would be, think it's a lot of brands, those who move first right can create a difference compared to their competitors. We've certainly seen it where, you know, certain verticals are very well established in this kind of activity, but other ones are less so. You know, if you look at things like appliances, for example, so your air fryers, et cetera.
That was a market that didn't traditionally do a lot of partnerships, but it's very well set up for it. Like here's your air fryer, here's a food box to go in the air fryer. If I do this before everyone else, here's a really opportunity point to get people to pick my air fryer instead of someone else's. I don't think I've ever said air fryer so many times in one minute, but you kind of get the idea. There's definitely a first mover advantage still, and I still think that.
Nic Yates (21:13)
Yeah. Yeah. ⁓
on.
I know.
Ha ha!
Adrian Vella (21:29)
exists. think through time that methodology will change and who can be the smartest in doing that. But I think there's still a lot of first mover advantage that's still available in the space.
Nic Yates (21:39)
Yeah, no, definitely. Appliances such a competitive industry in itself and how can a brand make itself different within its offering there as well. We're definitely seeing it kind of tapping into new verticals from an agency perspective, like retails becoming more and more apparent.
in itself. Even finance, like you have to be very careful with compliance, but finance companies are looking at brand partnerships in regards to how does it then help to acquire a new customer and engage with loyalty.
Adrian Vella (22:08)
And maybe the last thought on 2025, Do you think there was any kind of standout trends or shift in the wider performance marketing sphere of 2025 that we should kind of consider as part of this conversation?
Nic Yates (22:22)
The big thing for us as an agency was accountability. There was a lot more pressure in regards to what was incremental and attribution conversations as an agency. Very much around return on investment in regards to market spend for a client. I think that was just in...
in shape of the general economy, to be honest. But it did put a pressure in regards to market budgets and affiliate partner market budgets within that. As we then looked at incrementality and attribution, it was then more around kind of diversification as well. So making sure that the affiliate mix does add value within the research phase or awareness phase as well.
Adrian Vella (22:58)
Interesting We've obviously reflected on the past a little bit of 2025 and what that meant for yourselves and brands. What do you feel that econ brands should be preparing for in 2026 in your opinion?
Nic Yates (23:10)
So within affiliate and partner marketing it'll continue to diversify the affiliate mix itself but it'll also be around how does the affiliate marketing team support other digital marketing channels as well. So there'll be much more conversation around working alongside PPC, SEO and the likes of CRM teams.
The bit that I mentioned there in regards to search, the opportunity there is around AI and LLMs as well. And I think that teams are going to have to be a little bit more flexible in regards to budget management as well in order to pull the trigger on acquiring new customers as well.
Adrian Vella (23:47)
probably can't think of another industry where you have to relearn your entire job every year, which is both an amazing opportunity as well as a massive pain for the other training and development team. yeah, an interesting one on that one. Yeah, it's one way of looking at it, isn't it? And I guess to round off if you could give one recommendation to the Econ team who's
Nic Yates (23:59)
certainly keeps you on your toes.
Adrian Vella (24:09)
planning next year's growth strategy, bearing in mind all the different stuff that's going on. What would that be?
Nic Yates (24:15)
Just to be more open, think. Continue to leverage relationships that you've got and continue to just build knowledge. Be open to testing and learning new things. What worked last year won't work next year. So it's all around how do you adopt new technology and new practices and test and learn within your marketing strategy itself.
Adrian Vella (24:34)
Test, test, test, test, test. I think is the summary, right? Awesome. Well, thanks for featuring on this episode, Nick. Really appreciate it. I'm sure it'll a really interesting one for the listeners to tune into. And yeah, looking forward to catching you around soon.
Nic Yates (24:38)
Fantastico!
No worries, thanks for having me on and nice to see you.
Adrian Vella (24:53)
Cheers,
